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歌曲與網路中的英文天堂
---------袁永興
# How to learn English?
Always start from the "fun" stuff or easy parts in real life. For example, you can always learn from songs, books, or movies.
# It is a very good way to learn English through old songs because the grammar and lyrics in those songs are earlier to comprehend. Another alternative is to surf on the Internet and search for the "lyrics website", and then download the songs. Take advantage of the high-tech!
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Lisa ： 各位觀眾大家好，歡迎收看挑戰英文Action English，
Lisa會客室的時間。今天的特別來賓是誰呢? 我們趕快看一下他的個人小檔案。
Lisa: 歡迎大家回到我們的現場。今天的特別來賓，大家剛才已經看到他的個人小檔案了，就是你常常只聞其聲不見其人的廣播界名人---袁永興。
袁永興: Lisa你好，大家好。
Lisa: 你好，你看還沒有介紹他就自己出來了。我很喜歡袁永興的一些樂評，因為其實永興在做一些樂評的時候，跟以往的一些作法不太一樣。有點像我這個，往自己往臉上貼金好了，我在寫影評﹔我開始做這個影評的工作的時候，也是覺得要跟前人要劃清界線，我希望這樣子可以造成一種異曲同工之妙。 But anyhow, we are here to talk about English.
袁永興: Yeah.
Lisa: Action English and also how you learn the language. Would you care to talk to us how you pick up the language and how you master the language so far?
袁永興: I don't take this as master because we got take everything; or just like you treat everything in you life; just be part of your life. So from the very beginning, I simply just wanted to listen to the music; wanted to know more about the movie; about the TV drama; about the books I read. So you know, the more you practice, but you are definitely, and if that can be the definition of the mastering, so call it mastering. Okay, that's really I am mastering English from long time ago. In recent years, I started traveling all around the world. That start... That's just like another start in my life. I mean, in the English, you know, in school only start English just because what the books said to you, you know, the first vocabulary like: triumph that we didn't use in real world. What we use more often like, "We make it".
Lisa: Yeah.
袁永興: Yeah, and I gotta say secondly you need it is because when I was in college in the Cultural University, I met a foreign teacher from America or British, I forgot. He asked us to be, you know, just separate 3 or 4 persons into a group, and had a drama on the stage. So you gonna perform that, and you know, there's no conversation in front of the drama, so we don't have time to practice. We got… Okay, got on the stage…
Lisa: So everything is improvisation and impromptu.
袁永興: Yeah, so you know, it starts to become funny game at that time. All the things come to you mind, just all out of sudden, you gotta say.
Lisa: You have to react.
袁永興: Yeah, all the response got to be spontaneously at that time. So I think it's very practical and useful.
Lisa: Right.
袁永興: I tried start being a DJ, you know; I got interviews with the a lot of artists. The first artist I ever interviewed with is Enya. It's very an interesting experience just because Enya is an Irish, and she speaks Gaelic. So she said to me:
"Would you please speak slowly when you ask all the
questions?" "Slowly? Why?" "Because my mother language is not
English." "Oh, I got it."
Lisa: It's Gaelic.
袁永興: It's Gaelic. It's very interesting.
Lisa: Right, do people ask you questions, such as, you know:
"Do you use everything you learn in school?"
"Whatever you learn in school is practical, you know, in the real
life?" What do you tell them?
袁永興: I'll tell them before the college, it's for the examination.
Lisa: It's all for examination. Let's be fair and honest about it.
袁永興: Quite more from the western pop songs more even though sometimes the grammar is wrong, you know, for example, the Carpenters; they got a song called "She don't know me". It's wrong grammar.
Lisa: But there's more and less
"black English".
袁永興: Yeah, you are right. You gonna learn something new from that, but that's not from the real life.
Lisa: You know, there's a joke about it because the so-called "black English" is also part of American subculture. I remember this you know, they said that
"I dig this; I don't dig this, okay?"
袁永興: Yeah, yeah.
Lisa: Digging means "like it or
not", or you know, you feel something about it and, as I remember in many occasions, they translate it if you look it up in the dictionary, they will tell you
"digging", you know「挖掘」. "I dig it" means「我挖掘它」. That could be very far from the truth, right?
袁永興: Just like when we said something like:
"OK, it's exclusive news", "exclusively" is a new term, in old term, we didn't say
"exclusively", we used to say, "scoop".
袁永興: Scoop, right.
Lisa: Yeah.
"Exclusive", and also there's an another thing you know, in your work, of course people come to you, and say, "How do you learn language from songs?" You know, listening to different western pops.
袁永興: You know, the first song I ever remember all the lyrics is from the Osmond.
Lisa: The Osmond Brothers?
袁永興: Yeah.
Lisa: Danny Osmond & Marie
Osmond.
袁永興: Cause I got a TV show…
Lisa: "Just a little bit country; a little bit
rock'n'roll".
袁永興: Yeah, that's it. Oh, my god. All the good memories come back again.
Lisa: OK, I don't even know we're from the same generation. There you go.
袁永興: Yeah, you know. It's just like a living dictionary in your life, and you simply from the TV. So, I gonna say,
"Thank you for these pop songs." When I was just a little boy, and I didn't know what is A, B, C for, but I started singing these songs.
Lisa: Then you know not only the Osmond but Jackson Family.
袁永興: Yeah, Jackson 5.
Lisa: "A, B, C..."
袁永興: That's right, that's right! Yeah, you know, after the school; after all the language; after vocabulary I learned, I started find out something interesting, just like you know, maybe we have Taiwan English; we have Thailand English; we have Hong Kong English or Singapore English, OK, we all speaking English. It's only different in culture: the accent I think.
Lisa: Yeah, accent wise, right. If you talk about Singlish, Singapore English…
袁永興: In Thailand, you said the like this
"five dollars 啦, Sir, OK 啦, OK 啦!"
Lisa: OK, and Singlish, you know, Singapore English, they'll say: shopping
"cenDAR".
袁永興: Yeah, in Japan: "passport", please.
Lisa: Right, so it's really fun how people get together through their appreciation of music.
袁永興: It represents the multicultural influence on that.
Lisa: Right, what funny story you can give us?
袁永興: What funny story? Oh, let me think. OK, when I was a junior senior in the college, I met a situation like this: the teacher asked us to perform a
"family problem", you know, between husband's mom and wife.
Lisa: You mean on stage?
袁永興: Yeah, on stage.
Lisa: O.K.
袁永興: And you know, two girls fight in front of me on the stage. I don't know what to say so I yelling at them: "Stop, okay, Mom, I can give you a wonderful life" "And you, my dear wife, I can give you a wonderful sex. So we go a fair, okay?"
Lisa: Right, that's a kind of trade-off.
袁永興: Yeah. That's funny.
Lisa: 跟袁永興談到很多關於學英文的一些趣事，那麼我們休息片刻回來，我們再跟袁永興繼續聊。 |
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Lisa ：
歡迎大家回到我們的Action English，挑戰英文的現場。今天我們特別來賓是袁永興，今天能請到他其實是蠻特別的、蠻難得，因為袁永興大部分都是在廣播頻道上發聲，非常好聽的聲音。
袁永興: 謝謝。
Lisa: 非常有磁性，很難得跟他面對面的聊一些關於英文，還有他學習英文的方式。尤其我覺得永興剛提到，就是用一種戲劇的、演戲的方法，老師要求你們即興的演出，上台就演。比方說「吵架」，或者是說演一個小說裡面的情結。
袁永興: 其實像那種話我平時也說不出來: 「老媽，我可以給你很棒的生活﹔老婆，我可以給妳很棒的sex，OK不要再吵了」!
Lisa: 所以你看，這個的確是學英文的一個方法。 Also we talk about western songs, you know, popular songs. You care to share more you know, experience in picking up the songs and also at the same time the language?
袁永興: Yeah, if you want to learn more English from the old songs, that'll be perfect. Because, oldies but goodies, all the grammar they use will be more accurate in the songs. It doesn't look like; it doesn't sound like our rapper, our hip-hop songs nowadays. You know, they always talk like: "Hey, yo man!" All the grammar; all the slangs, I don't think you can comprehend all that song.
Lisa: No.
袁永興: Yeah, so it's very difficult to learn English from the rap songs.
Lisa: Right.
袁永興: But from old songs, that's a good choice. For example like the Carpenters; Simon & Garfunkel and Bob Dylan, OK, he used great lyrics and Joan Baez. And lots of songwriters, they can write great lyrics and great melody. That makes things match perfectly.
Lisa: Right, but you know, Songwriters are always make fun of, you know, in States, because songwriters like Barry Manilow who sings easy listening stuff can be really joked about all around.
袁永興: Yeah, Princess Diana's family's obvious...
Lisa: Yeah, really! Before she died? And you know, in learning the language, to what extend do you think that the lyrics can help, you know, in our daily conversation?
袁永興: OK, when the first time I found the website on internet; there's a lyrics website; it's called "Top 40", all the pop songs in the past few decades they put all the lyrics on that.
Lisa: Oh, really, everything?
袁永興: Yeah, everything, that's really great. For example, when I was a little kid, I listened to a song called "Pac-Man Fever". You know what Pac-Man is? That's a game:
"Pac-Man Fever". I've been looking for the song and when the Napster website brought up, I found the lyrics, too. And I learned a lot of things from that because that presents all the lyrics in the past few decades. You know, like,
"Take My Breath Away" and for example, "Bridge over Troubled
Water"; the Beatles: "Yesterday". You can find all the lyrics in this website. It's useful.
Lisa: Talking about
"Bridge over Troubled Water", actually, that one helped me out a little bit in my translation. I was translating for Gorbachev. Gorbachev was, you know, saying this:
"This is the situation where you find just like bridge over troubled
water". Yeah, and we will translate it the right way. People understand that instance, 「惡水上的大橋」meaning that, you know, there are some many barriers ahead, and you really have to go beyond that. Right, this is really funny. And also in all the interviews with the artists, you talked about Enya, who's also made fun of all the time because of the Gaelic or the Irish or the very rhythmatic, kind of presentation, what other artists impress you the most?
袁永興: Let me think, you know, there's a producer and his name is David Foster.
Lisa: Right, David Foster who likes women.
袁永興: And he has five baby girls or six girls.
Lisa: OK, good for him.
袁永興: He's a very funny guy; he's simply like 李宗盛, you know, David is a...
Lisa: 李宗盛 of Canada.
袁永興: Yeah, OK. Ten years ago when the first time I met David, he told me a lot of things which like the potentiality of a new artist. He mentioned one girl to me, and her name is Celine Dion. He's been said all the good things about Celine Dion.
Lisa: Really? When she wasn't that popular; she was just entering.
袁永興: She just had one or two album released ten or eleven years ago in Canada. And I found that girl, and he found her voice is strong and very... I don't know, charming or what? He's addicted to the voice and he decided to make her voice splendid, gorgeous to everyone in this world to know her music. And he did.
Lisa: And David Foster worked with some of our local artists, anybody that he talked about?
袁永興: You know, like I remember 50 or 60 artists at least I ever interviewed with like: rocker Jon Bon Jovi, or like the pianist, George Winston, they all have different cultural influence and their musical influence. And when you talked about the music, their passion cannot hide. When you talk about the culture, they get serious about what you asked.
Lisa: Right.
袁永興: So you can feel the depth of their thinking; their positive thinking, and their motivation of everything. That attracts me the most.
Lisa: Yeah, or that matter a lack of depth. I believe that your career; you must find some people that you really don't like.
袁永興: I don't dare to interview with younger generations such like, Britney Spears.
Lisa: Why?
袁永興: I don't know what to ask.
"What perfume do you use?" "What's your favorite
color?" What does that mean to me?
Lisa: Yeah. "What movie do you go
to?" You know, tell us a little bit about that funny tie of yours.
袁永興: Funny tie?
Lisa: That's one of the most amazing ties I've ever seen.
袁永興: It's a beautiful encounter. Two years ago I went to London because for the Redding Rock Festival. You know, in the Redding Rock Festival, you have many rock bands. They just keep go on performing and performing, you know, like Chemical Brothers, Priology and New Order, or Oasis, Blur. Wow, you know, when they performed on the stage, we just keep yelling, screaming. There is one thing I cannot forget is for example, when the Blur stopped performing, they turned out all the lights, and all of a sudden we heard music. And people started to shake their heads, and they hit me. I feel so scared. When I turned back, I mean thousands of people doing the same thing: just shake their heads.
Lisa: Like crackers.
袁永興: Yeah, so I just keep run away. It's very shocking. And when I was back to the London town, let me think, you know, the Victoria Station, all around the Victoria Station, so it's just 2 or 3 stops near the Covent Garden. And in Covent Garden, it's a big, big market. All the strange or funky things; funky stuff there; you can collect them. And this is one of them.
Lisa: One of them.
袁永興: One of them, you just in the astrological shop, near the astrological shop because I like collect all of the things about the astrology, and when I found a store; it's a small, small store but it's red wall you know, red color, just like:
"Come, look at me, it's ..."
Lisa: Attention gathering.
袁永興: Yes, so I went there and found the tie. Because it's so strange, when I touched it,
"Oh, my God. That's great." And look at girls.
Lisa: Marvelous collection
袁永興: Yeah, I just can't help. I think, no matter how much it is, I gotta take it away.
Lisa: No matter how many quits you'll pay it. Let's take a break. We'll be right back. |
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Lisa ： 歡迎大家回到我們的現場，剛才跟永興正在談他的這條領帶，因為我覺得，尤其是男生，這個身上可以作怪的服飾大概就是「領帶」了。所以他這條領帶真的是羨煞我們，也當然對女生來講是沒什麼機會別領帶，但是其實這是一個很好的題材，You know我們在談到所謂的 small talk，我們在聊天的時候，如果說永興可以掛這樣子的一條領帶，其實他走到哪裡，我相信都會有很多人過來問他這條領帶的事情。
袁永興: You can listen.
Lisa: Right. And you know, start a conversation that way, right? That's a really good way to…
袁永興: It's a good start from everything on you.
Lisa: You know, highlights the person.
袁永興: Because it just simply looks good on you.
Lisa: I see how much you appreciate yourself. You can say,
"appreciate yourself", but never say like some of our 台商, they say,
"I enjoy myself very much". OK, 那會是另外的意思喔！因為如果你要說 enjoy就說 I enjoy it；或說 I enjoy the evening或什麼，千萬不要說enjoy yourself，因為人家會想入非非。OK，那再講到那個，談一點關於永興另一個興趣。因為你其實在節目裡面常常談到網路Internet上面的使用，Care to share some views of internet?
袁永興: Yeah. You know, I gotta say that when the hi-tech keeps going on and on, and people stop observing. That's far behind; you gotta catch it. You gotta catch the trend. Simply like me, when I used the Internet; it was 4 years ago, I didn't feel that many people around me using the Internet. I felt so strange because it's so practical. When the first time I using the portal website like...
Lisa: What did you use? Yahoo or…?
袁永興: Yeah, it's really a big, big world to me in the whole new world. All the visual design on the Internet is a brand new thing and you just keep appreciate all their creations; all their designs on that. And for example: the Napster. All the record company have sued the Napster because they keep offering the user exchange.
Lisa: Free download.
袁永興: Free download, yeah, so the sue is still… haven't get a deal because their judge I think it's from the United States, their judge said according to the fair use, they cannot close the website. When in 1984, it's the same situation like all the film companies; they don't want let the videotape because they're scared that'll influence their box office.
Lisa: Yeah, you can duplicate the videotapes.
袁永興: Yeah, duplicate over and over, what's the result? The result is Hollywood gets more and more money.
Lisa: Getting a cut from every video sale.
袁永興: You're right. So they start rethinking the definition of Napster; the function of Napster and what Napster is, what hi-tech is. There must be something wrong and there are must be some gaps between the Napster and the record companies. They negotiate over and over again. So to me, when the first time I used Napster, I gotta say, "Thanks God!" You know there are so many songs lost. They're already kept in your memory in your brain, but you cannot find them anymore, why? Because all record companies didn't release that.
Lisa: Yeah, they think, there's no business there. They cannot make money out of this so they keep it out of circulation.
袁永興: So many one-hit wonders in the past few years, so if you wanna try to find out you gonna use the Napster. Why? Because maybe one of their fans turn this into an MP3 or wave audio on internet, you can download that. And that's a treasure to me you know, because I can start recollect my memory back. So that's the best thing of Napster.
Lisa: That's really a good thing to especially to students who don't have much money to buy all the CDs out there. Especially you know, Britney Spears' having 2 or 3 CDs a year, you have to spend that kind of money.
袁永興: If they want to be a faithful fan, they gonna collect all the releases. You know, all the releases are just the same song; just different versions of one song.
Lisa: According to my knowledge is that students in the United States or Northern America, you find that the elementary school students to college students, you'll find them to have a very big collection from Napster, based on Napster. And what's your view on the future of Napster? Will there be a day when Napster or such a website
can make a deal with record company?
袁永興: I think what impressed me most is the copyright because the law about copyright is not that clear between the hi-tech development and the copyright. So they need to fix that.
Lisa: Right.
袁永興: The question is
"how". The method is still looking for that, and when you looking for that, the hi-tech is still going on and on. Many new software that can be download when you try to find the method. So the problem is we should have you know, like chips. Let me give you an example:
"I-Mode" in Japan; the docomo.com.
Lisa: Right, the cell phone.
袁永興: Yeah, they start have the new function for all the users to download the new song used by wireless communications that they need the chips. If you don't have chips, you cannot download that. That will be illegal. The same thing, if we can have a definition about, okay, in the near 2 years or 3 years, all the new released songs you cannot download that, because it's all brand new. You need to… The more and more people buy that instead of download that. That's good. If you wanna download that, OK, thirty seconds just try to...
Lisa: To listen.
袁永興: Yeah, to listen; the same thing. So you wanna looking for 20 years or 30 years old songs, OK, go ahead, download that because that's your memory. Yeah, you don't need to buy that because it's you memory. If you gotta pay more and more money to get your money back, I think that's a bad thing to the human beings, all the human beings.
Lisa: Yeah, I think it's really enlightening. I would strongly recommend that you write in English and put this message or post it on Internet, because this will probably get feedback and response from all over the world.
袁永興: And all of people forget one thing because Napster is not simply just let you download all the stuffs, they have a chat room. When you download the songs, you can have the chat with the people all over the world. I remember one time when I tried to download the Willie Nilson, he's got a great song always on mind. It's a cover song by Elvis Presley, and it's from a housewife in Canada. And she's fifty years old, and she feels so bored when she's download and exchange the music on the Napster. So I just simply,
"Hi, I'm from Taiwan. Where are you?" And she just simply replied:
"I'm a bored, old woman from Canada". So we start chatting on Internet.
Lisa: It's a good way to start making friends, too, on the net.
袁永興: Because we are music lovers.
Lisa: Right, you know due to limited time, we have to close the episode.
袁永興: Oh, my goodness.
Lisa: I believe that we'll have time to talk more not only about English, but also Napster and the future of Internet, and music. We'll see you next time. 限於時間的關係，我們今天的節目就只能進行到這裡，跟永興談得很開心。
袁永興: 謝謝。
Lisa: 那麼以後有機會繼續聊，我們下次見！
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